Alignment

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Alignment

Post by Asidrive on August 22nd 2012, 9:06 pm

So I dont know to much about alignment. Ive read plenty on forums so I know why and some of what does what.

on my wrx, ill be running a shock/spring instead of a coilover for a few reasons. what bits are needed for proper racing/minor dd alignment. camber bolts seem to get roughly 1.5 neg. are plates needed? what about the rears.

obviously ill be reading and learning in my normal pre bed forum attack.

just hoping BOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! had some info due to general awesome

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Re: Alignment

Post by CatchM3 on August 23rd 2012, 2:43 am

camber bolts work fine but camber plates allow more adjustment. you can run camber bolts in the rear if you would like adjustability. depending on how you drive and how the car feels to you effects what alignment specs to run. since Subaru's are usually rear wheel bias i tend to follow theories related to rwd alignments. here is a ink to tireracks site http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4. they have a good write up regarding alignments. on my subie i ran 2.5 deg. negative camber front and 2 deg. negative in the rear. 1/16 deg. total toe out in the rear and 0 toe in the front. i also did the free caster mod to add some caster as well. the car felt good to me at the track. minimal understeer and good turn-in. autox might be different, since there are more aggressive turns and lower speeds involved i would think as much negative camber and 0 toe front and rear to start. seeing how the car performs and how the tire wears ill adjust accordingly. im sure im missing something, just ask and ill answer to the best of my knowledge Laughing
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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 23rd 2012, 9:02 am

for an autoX stand point on AWD cars aligning towards a FWD platform is the better way to go as most awd platforms resemble a FWD more so than RWD.

I see what mikey is saying about the rwd thing especially for the track but WRX doesnt split the torque as much as the sti does to the rear wheels as far as i know. altho you can get a larger rear bar an bump those tire pressures up in the rear and (dylan might like this) "its a completely differnt animal"

camber plates help because they also add added caster depending on the plates used. adding caster helps keep the neg camber as the suspension gets compressed around turns. this is increadabily useful in an autoX sistuation where transistions and hard tight turns are a normal thing.

I dislike crash bolts or camber bolts in this situation. They can so easy to fuck up and even easier to not setup properly. yes they have added benefit of pushing what isnt possible out of the car but if you plan to bring it somewhere where you know they know how to use camber bolts and you plan to never touch it unless brining the car back to them then its not a bad idea since its a fraction of the cost compared to plates.

keep in mind some plates only work with certain types of shocks or with extrended bolts to make it work so i would get the spring shock combo first then look for plates later.

The bonus of coilovers which i believe mikey had is the fact that they are thin... there is no clearence issues when adding added camber or caster. with a shock spring setup you might be maxed out at -2camber thus needing to use crash bolts along with camber plates to get the desired -3 camber.

personally I am looking at these or RCE camber plates to add a littel caster and to be able to adjust camber on the fly.
http://turninconcepts.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_9_11_260_267_1081&products_id=1028

Also looking into places that might have an unlimited allignment package because everytime you fuck with caster and camber your toe in or out will change... soo evertime you change camber you need to change toe soo its just something to think about.

Mikey running toe out in the rear is def a RWD thing. Toe out up front will help stability in tight turns but also causes dartyness in slalom transitions.

Drifters use rear toe out to maintain stable drifts. its all about weight transfer tho beucase in a slide there will be less weight on the outside tire than there will be in a tight turn or hard turn ona road course.

Just my.02 Been trying ot learn more about suspension and allignment since fucking all that up with the neon haha lost my way with the 300C recently tho so I have been out of hte loop.

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Re: Alignment

Post by CatchM3 on August 23rd 2012, 11:14 am

Drew is very correct and hearing what he thinks makes a lot of sense. I believe a wrx has a 45/55 split in torque with a manual. Like drew camber bolts would not be my first choice but are an option if unable to run camber plates. Haven't done too many awd alignments as majority or our autox customers drive s2k or miatas. Definatley would like to learn more about awd dynamics so I'll observe you guys and experiment with your cars lol. Haven't really done to mich with the sti in regards to alignment since I sold it just before I really got into tracking Crying or Very sad
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Re: Alignment

Post by Crazyski on August 23rd 2012, 11:21 am

Subscribed.
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Re: Alignment

Post by fat pat on August 23rd 2012, 11:37 am

Do you still have gran turismo? get a fully adjustable suspension there and play with settings. use in real life whatever you like best in the game

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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 23rd 2012, 11:56 am

I am sort of a hypocrite tho... I want to set up my allignment like an understearing FWD car but my Bar is going up front like a RWD car.

increase in tire pressure in the rear and Evan already said i am lifting my tire so last thing i need is a larger rear bar.

For a bluebaru on a budget getting crash bolts and finding a place that can get a good alignment is the best finacial decision. Altho adding some caster and more adjustments for camber will also help them dial in a competitive autoX setup.

Rears are a differnt story and far less adjustable. need more shiney bits for that... or more crash bolts haha

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Re: Alignment

Post by ildylan on August 23rd 2012, 11:58 am

I run -2.5 front and -2 in the rear.

I am using Whiteline camberbolts to achieve this as they are less expensive than plates, and got me to where I wanted to be (alignment wise).

Most folks are running -2 to -3 in the front and -2 in the rear.
My source for info: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=970625

I can tell you the thread is huge/long but full of a lot of good info.

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Re: Alignment

Post by ildylan on August 23rd 2012, 12:03 pm

P&L did my install and alignment, and I have no complaints.

Also, Drew, the rear bar might help you stay down if my logic is correct; I was 3 wheelin' when I had only an FSB.

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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 23rd 2012, 12:29 pm

ildylan wrote:P&L did my install and alignment, and I have no complaints.

Also, Drew, the rear bar might help you stay down if my logic is correct; I was 3 wheelin' when I had only an FSB.

stiff rear bar with these arai sti pinks might actually cause more lift.

keeping the front from rolling into the outside tire as much will cause my back end to aslo stay planted more.

I am not consered about getting rear rotation from the car as much as getting the grip to stay in geometry upfront thus the caster, camber and thicker bar to keep the dynamic camber from changing as much in hard turns.

the theroy can be manipulated in many ways.
for your car dylan running -2 up front compared to the 1.75 of mine (maybe) will have similar afects of when it rolls over hard (3degrees) its taking away those -2 degrees and possibl getting into possitive camber on load. A front bar will not let the front roll as much along with my stiffer springs (arai jdm sti pinks or what ever i have) thus only rolling 2 degrees and taking away the -2 degrees of static camber.

Also applied to caster.. adding caster will in turn not let the roll take away from camber..

off topic here haha in theroy adding a stiffer front bar should keep the back from tripodding more too. the theroy is that the car compresses closer onto the outer wheel and the sway bar will force the opposite wheel to also get closer to the vehicle thus causing gravity to pull down on the higher end of the car and keep it planted.

Might be confusing me explaining it.

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Re: Alignment

Post by Asidrive on August 23rd 2012, 12:32 pm

does one6 do alignments?

so as far as parts, bolts do some camber. plates would do more plus more adjust ability

stock, my fronts have bolts with a very limited adjustment and nothing in rear?

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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 23rd 2012, 12:44 pm

ildylan wrote:P&L did my install and alignment, and I have no complaints.

Also, Drew, the rear bar might help you stay down if my logic is correct; I was 3 wheelin' when I had only an FSB.

Altho you are also correct with my stiffer springs and stiffer front bar the rear bar would also be benificial. hmmmm


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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 23rd 2012, 12:48 pm

Asidrive wrote:does one6 do alignments?

so as far as parts, bolts do some camber. plates would do more plus more adjust ability

stock, my fronts have bolts with a very limited adjustment and nothing in rear?

bolts can do a lot of camber really. dylan increased his by -1.5 just with bolts. stock on an sti is -1.0 most stuggle to get more than 1.5 so the fact that crash bolts adjustent it an extra degree and a half is pretty good. Yes plates in theroy can adjsut to -3 but also dpends on springs and stuts along with other adjustments.

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Re: Alignment

Post by CatchM3 on August 23rd 2012, 4:13 pm

Asidrive wrote:does one6 do alignments?

so as far as parts, bolts do some camber. plates would do more plus more adjust ability

stock, my fronts have bolts with a very limited adjustment and nothing in rear?

Yes we do have an alignment machine and corner balancing scales.

I believe Subaru has minor camber adjustments in the front, none in the back.
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Re: Alignment

Post by Asidrive on August 23rd 2012, 5:20 pm

I'm going to get goodies and hit up one6. I need a decal...represent our forum vendors

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Re: Alignment

Post by Asidrive on August 23rd 2012, 5:21 pm

Where's my dbh decal?

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Re: Alignment

Post by ildylan on August 23rd 2012, 5:37 pm

<3

I'll get that to you pronto. I too need a 0ne6 sticker to rep.

I get what you are saying Drew, and the bars help reduce the roll into positive camber as they allow your springs to work less since less body roll = less compression.

From my understanding of the logic/physics. You are 3wheeling because the weight is getting thrown really hard to one side, causing the spring to compress fully and eventually the opposite wheel to start lifting. Adding a rear bar would allow less body roll, causing less utilization on the springs, thus keeping your ass planted (I could be way off on my understanding though).

I will say the rear bar stopped my 3 wheelin.

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Re: Alignment

Post by Asidrive on August 23rd 2012, 7:11 pm

if his shocks were adjusted, would that have kept it down? stiffer less chance of spring max out?

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Re: Alignment

Post by ildylan on August 23rd 2012, 7:43 pm

It would have helped.

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Re: Alignment

Post by Tamadx on August 24th 2012, 8:57 am

on stock springs too stiff of a rear bar say 26 or above will most likely lift your wheel. in my case i believe the shocks are the ones that actually lift the wheel. there might not be as much travel in the setup i have now than a stock system.

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Re: Alignment

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